AJF--2

My Feedback: (119)

With all due respect, I have found Rocco and Kevin both to tell me things that were not 100% accurate.

Smokey

My Feedback: (16)

Anybody else have any info to share on their build or flying?

Smokey

dork_blaster

My Feedback: (14)

Okay Smokey - here goes some what I've done lately, pictures coming someday. Still recovering from knee surgery.

Control surfaces done, not sure I liked the black plastic covers provided to cover the screw heads and nuts for the control horns. Used them on the tail, but not on the wings. Used the provided metal hinges "recommended" by the manual and used Gorilla glue instead of epoxy. NOTE: the knuckles of the metal hinges make for a huge gap, notching the leading edge of the control surface solves this problem. If you use the CA hinges, you won't have this problem. The AW manual recommends using Klett 1/4 scale hinges (CA) if you're going to use that method. Used 1 1/2" Prolinks on the ailerons (only because I had them laying around) - the provided metal linkages probably would be fine since they're so short. The control horn hardware is nice, ball bearing type.

If you're thinking of countersinking or insetting the bolt heads into the control surface... DON'T. AW manual says not to - must be a good reason why.

The hard points interfere with complete insertion of the corresponding metal hinge, cutting it down solves this problem.

Just started the motor box, waiting on CNC standoffs from RC Showcase (I'm using the ZDZ100NG which is 1/2" shorter than the DA100). Someone posted that bolting the cabane wood supports to the motor box sides is a ***** (female dog), upon further inspection I think I'll use blind nuts instead of the provided bolts. Should make life easier.

Bolted the gear on slanting to the rear like the full scale version (and my other two smaller Ultimates). Have to say that the gear is nice and beefy, but not too heavy. Because of all the tail heavy warnings I've seen posted, I'm going to keep it.

Used the stock tail gear - not sure I like it, but let's see how it holds up to my concrete soft landings! Will probably go CF tail gear eventually, I've seen metal failure kill this type of gear all too often. I've seen CF tail gear take hits that regular gear would certainly have failed.

Canister mod will be another ***** (female dog) - but I've got some ideas. Looks like I'm going to have to hog out the foam under the cabane to make room for the gas and smoke tanks since the canisters will be going where the tank normally sits.

Waiting to the last to mount the rudder servos to see how this puppy balances. Nose heavy, servos in the tail, tail heavy - it's pull-pull tiime! Not sure if I want to go with one 5735 or two 5945s. Two 5945s will provide more torque and will be 1oz lighter, and the fuse already has cut outs for a two servo pull-pull setup. If I go with one 5735, setup is simpler, but I'll have to enlarge one of the openings. Decisions, decisions...

AW manual says the wings should be at zero incidence, and the stabs at 1.5 deg positive. Someone posted recommending adding up thrust - I would not do this until you test fly the plane. My experience with bipes tells me that the incidence on that plane might be a little off. The AW manual has a nice trimming tutorial by Chip Hyde.

Cheers all! Time for more Vicodin.

DB

Smokey

My Feedback: (16)

Dork blaster....great information!!!!! Got a couple of questions. Did you use the servo arm that they provided? If so, did you mount them on nylon servo wheels like the manual showed? How long are the standoffs that you ordered? I was thinking of moving the engine more forward to offsett the weight more. Probably will use 3/4" or so standoffs. I decided to use carbon fiber on the stab tube since everybody is saying tail heavy conditions even with a DA. I already mounted my 5735 on pull pull. Enlarged the servo opening closest to the engine. I will be installing the throttle and choke servos in the motor box for more weight up front. The instructions on the world models does not mention anything about cabane drilling and installation. I didnt get a chance to look if holes are now pre drilled. My plane is being built in a friends house so i dont have easy access. Keep the great info comming!!!

Smokey

dork_blaster

My Feedback: (14)

Smokey - yep I used the glassed filled plastic arms supplied and mounted them on the white nylon wheels that came with the Hitecs (wishing they were black). I pushed the arm onto opposite side of the wheel (the arm mounts on top) and used the existing holes in the arm to guide the 1/16" drill bit (existing holes in nylon wheel don't match). After I drilled the first hole, I put a screw in to hold the arm in place over the wheel to drill the remaining 3 holes. I don't recommend redrilling the existing holes in the wheel to mate to the arm, this will weaken the plastic. Drill NEW ones in the fleshier part of the nylon wheel.

I noticed that the AW manual used the stock aluminum arms that come with the Hitecs. If you want to save some installation time you might want to use them (but you'll get more throw from the longer plastic arms, if you're a 3D'er then you already know what this means). This is the first time I used this type of arm on a big plane - always used aluminum 3D arms (SWBs or similar). I'm worried that the plastic hub might get stripped, but I've not seen any reports of this happening. BTW - I plan on using 3D aluminum arms on the elevators. It just looked better than the big honking black arms sticking out like that, not as much of an issue on the ailerons since they're more hidden and you're looking at the edges instead of the top.

I ordered the 1/2" standoffs to keep the motorbox stock since the DA is 6.5in and the ZDZ is 6.0in. I too plan on putting the throttle and choke servos in the box - but I 've been bit in the past with engine noise hits doing this. Might need opto-couplers or twisted and choked servo leads.

More coming as I progress. Good day to you all!

DB

dork_blaster

My Feedback: (14)

Did the blind nut thing to the motor box sides for the wood cabane supports (which is the way the AW manual says to do it) works great! Make sure you put the blind nuts on BEFORE you glue in the motor box sides. Used 4/40x1/2" socket heads and #4 washer and my trusty ball end hex driver - no contortions needed to bolt them in now.

Continuing to ponder the fuel tank mods... looks like there might NOT be room for two tanks, unless I use 2 20 or 16 oz tanks. Canister hacking will require additional reinforcement of areas where there is no more wood.

DB

haneydmd

Build tip. went to the field sunday to get in my maiden. Atfer the bouncy ride out could not fly because several ends of the turnbuckle vibrated out and one was lost, bummer. Probable obvious to everyone but me but a 3mm nut has to be placed on one side and both sides should have blue lock tight placed on to allow for adjustment but will not vibrate out or loosen, per Aeroworks. I got to run up and mooch a replacement from Rocco but if I didn't live close I would have had to replace flying wire with avaliable non metric turnbuckles.

Smokey

My Feedback: (16)

I probably will order servo arms from swb. Dont really trust the nylon wheels that come with the servo. Are you planning to just use the 4-40 bolts on the wooden cabane supports thats attached to the motor box or are you gonna glue them also? Keep the great info comming!!!

Thanks
Smokey

dork_blaster

My Feedback: (14)

Thanks for the tip Haneydmd - I TRY to remember to use Loctite (blue or red depending on the app) but it takes an incident like that to pop you in the head and say "Stupid me!!" would'a should'a could'a has preceded many a lost aircraft. Fortunate that you were able to keep yours!

Smokey - glued the wood cabanes in per the manual and keeping the bolts there, no need to worry about them working out since there's a some epoxy keeping them in place.

RE the servo arms, I figure since there's 4 ailerons a failure in one wheel SHOULD be tolerable, definitely using SWB or Airwild arms in the elevator.

FYI - the kit came with a 3/16" diam. or so length of dowel I'm ASSUMING is used to pin the firewall. Weird thing is NO WHERE in either the World or AW manual does it say to do this or maybe I missed it. It's pointed/sharpened on both ends so another use might be to fish lines through the tail? I'm going to pin the firewall anyway with some dowel I have laying around and ponder the purpose of the giant toothpick.

Had to round off the ends of the brass covered anti-rotaton dowels in the upper wing to facilitate easier insertion. It was very hard trying to get the wings halves to mate before doing this.

Anxiously awaiting the arrival of my standoffs so I can finish the motorbox. Where are you Mr. UPS man?
UPDATE: RC Showcase has some sort of "emergency" this week (of 4/4) and is NOT shipping anything according to their phone recording.

DB

dork_blaster

My Feedback: (14)

Here's some pictures at my canister surgery on the 33% World Models (Aeroworks) Ultimate. More coming as I progress.

Smokey

My Feedback: (16)

Very nice info.

Smokey

dork_blaster

My Feedback: (14)

Thanks Smokey - hope it all helps in the end.

Here's the final canister install, next up is finishing the motor box, mount the motor, make the headers, mount the fuel tank, install the Powerbox and radio, install the throttle and choke servos, put it all together and fly it!

Note the offset in the cans (about 1/2in). This is because of the cylinder stagger of the engine. The right thrust reduces it slightly (more or less depending on how close or far you mount the cans). Since the nifty mounts from RC Showcase were mounted at an angle and flush against the wall rather than sitting on top of former, I added a small screw to keep the mount from rotating.

Smokey

My Feedback: (16)

Does anybody know what size servo arm is required for pull pull setup on this plane if you use the stock rudder control horns?

Thanks
Smokey

Ronbo

My Feedback: (12)

Mike Hurley has a 2-3 part series in MA using the AW 33%. very interesting.

Smokey

My Feedback: (16)

Ronbo...do you know what month that article is printed on?

Smokey

Three

My Feedback: (2)

To all...........I'm gettin' back in to R/C after being out for about 2 years( been flying powered parachutes).
I'm reading your comments and taking it all in. Now I gotta choose...Which color. In Mike Hurley's article he says the paint on the cowl doesn't match the ultracote on the purple plane. Whatta y'all think?..........For those of you who have finished and are flying, how much trouble to assemble it at the field? What do you think of it's flying characteristics?

Thanks
Three

Ronbo

My Feedback: (12)

Smokey,
its the current may issue of MA, part 1. i too, am wanting the WM/Aeroworks 33%. i would buy the BME, but i dont like the scheme....

dave_anderson

My Feedback: (47)

If AW isn't producing Ultimates anymore, I wish they would go back to producing their 37 and 39% Extra 300 builders kits and ARCs. IMHO those are some of the best IMAC/freestyle planes ever made. Anyone know why they stopped producing the Extras?

dork_blaster

My Feedback: (14)

Saw the article. Interesting that Mike is "hoping" a 3-blade will make it quiet enough (based on past experience probably not). As accomplished a builder Mike is, you'd think he would try to put cans in it. Maybe he's pressed for time? It is an info article about ARF building, maybe out of context to modify for cans.

Smokey - if I go pull-pull I'll let you know what I used for the arm. Surprised no one answered, maybe they did and I didn't see it.

Color matching - it doesn't. The cowl is just a tiny bit darker than the covering, but I can live with it. My plane has been illuminated by indirect and artificial light, I let all know if it's the same in sunlight. (probably).

Dave - I'm only guessing, but perhaps they stopped making them because no one wanted them? Or they were afraid of all the competition Fiberclassics/Comp Arf and Carden were giving them? I seem to recall the AW Extra was a bit pricey as well. With all the rumors and stuff you saw in this thread, do you think you'll ever get the real story?

Take care all, I'm almost done (guessing another week or so). Fly safe!

DB

Smokey

My Feedback: (16)

Dork Blaster....i will be waiting for your info. Did you use the stock metal hinges? I am going to use Klett hinges. Need to enlarge the opening to make it fit. Changing all the mounting bolts to 4-40. Has anybody notice the GIGANTIC bolts thats used to mount the landing gear? I guess they really want to make sure that the bolts don't break on a bad landing...

Smokey

dork_blaster

My Feedback: (14)

Smokey - hope you're a patient person! Yes, I used the stock metal hinges which was a lot more work than using the CA hinges. Someday I'll test the big Klett CAs on a plane of less value to me, had a CA hinge failure on a 120 size plane a while back that makes me wonder.

I too switched to 4-40 stainless on the cabane and wing tubes. The 3MM hardware provided looks like stainless, but strips WAY too easy.

The main gear bolts (4) are definitely overkill, but I used them anyway. I had to dig into my automotive tool box for the right Allen wrench. They're bigger than the ones I used on my 40% plane (6x 10-32). Oh, well - another tool purchase for the flight box.

Take care all.

DB

haneydmd

When AW started they manufactured all there kits themselves here in Colorado. This was back when if you wanted a quality plane you had to build. When ARF's came to the forefront in the hobby and prices for them dropped, to compete AW had to manufacture overseas like eveyone else and rely on better lighter design to stand out. Several months ago when I was up at AW talking to Rocco about what he is planning, he mentioned that the are going back to kitting some of their planes (kits to be manufactered overseas). Since my hanger is pretty full I did not pay that much attention to which planes they had in mind. If you would like next time I am at AW I can get some detail for you, what and when. I also miss the days of kits and building so your plane was light and special. I have about 5-6 AW planes and the ones I built are my favorites. Example 33% Extra 330L/ 3W 106 only 22 3/4 LBs without CF wing tubes, ballistic and you can only get that if you do it yourself and weigh every peice. AW does have CA kits but I have seen them up there and was not overly impressed. They looked good but did not WOW me. They have switched manufacturers and the ARF's 300s and other prototypes I have seen look very impressive!!!!!!! Very Light and thoughtfully designed ( in conjunction with Chip Hyde). If this company can do a builders kit with similar quality it should be great. Most people say they want top quality all contest grade balsa, etc. but when they see the cost and look at the heavier ARF next to it, the ARF usually wins so your potential market gets much smaller.

Smokey

My Feedback: (16)

Dork Blaster...my Klett hinges are not CA hinges. they are the ones with a pin in the middle. I have them on my 35% Plane and had no problems. Keep me informed on how your plane balances.

Thanks
Smokey

dork_blaster

My Feedback: (14)

Maidened my 33% Ultimate yesterday on a blustery day. My gut told me I should've waited for less wind, but I don't get out as much as I used to so I took a chance. Didn't do anything fancy, just trimmed her out as much as I could in the wind, made a few laps, some axial rolls and loops, and landed a couple times. The plane is still in one piece. After pulling the underwear out from my azz-crack my first impressions were somewhat cooled by the amount of wind I had to endure.

1) Just remembered how much I hate flying wires.
2) It's pretty hard to trim a plane in gusty conditions.
3) I hate flying wires.
4) The recommended throws in the World Models manual aren't enough if your throwing your plane around in the wind.
5) I really hate flying wires.
6) Recommended CG seems to work well for general flying, but won't know for sure until I fly again in more calm conditions. 2000mAh LiPo on ignition up front as far as she'll go. 2x 2000mAh LiPo and 40/24 Powerbox as far forward as possible under the cockpit, single 5735 pull-pull in foward position.
7) Landing her in a wicked cross wind sure was fun!

Other build notes:

The edges of the brass tubing used on the top wing anti-rotation dowels are pretty square (sharp) making for difficult insertion into the other wing half. Rounding them off mades things easier.

Smokey - used a 3" aluminum arm I had laying around for the pull-pull rudder. I mounted the 5735 in the slot closest to the front on top of 1/4" light ply blocks and don't test fit or mount the 5735 without these. The bottom of the 5735 will hit the center stringer on the bottom of the fuse (I knocked mine loose and had to re-glue). The lines exit cleanly and parallel to the built-in slots near the rudder with this configuration.

Had to cut an opening in the left side of the cowl for the spark plug on the ZDZ. I think a DA would fit more cleanly due to the angled spark plug. As much as I like ZDZ, if I had to do this again, I'd go DA.

BTW - Graphtec website says "Aeroworks Ultimate Next" http://www.graphtechrc.com/Secure/mall/maingear.asp

...but they don't say when, or whether or not it'll be 33%, 27% or both??

Did I mention I HATE [:@] flying wires?

Cheers!

DB

Ronbo

My Feedback: (12)

Plan on doing any IMAC with it? if so, let me know. Im really interested in how the 33% and up do for IMAC.