ESM Dornier DO 335
04-16-2013, 08:32 AM
#651
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
That wont work. The ESM strut is threaded for a screw in axle....so the bolt has to have threads all the way to bolt head to thread into the threaded strut hole. While sanding down the threads beyond the strut where the wheel sits and then wrapping in tape doesn't sound look an elegant solution, it does work. Icrocbsa's suggestion of using shrink tubing at that spot is also a good way to do this.
The problem is...both ends of the "bolt have to have threads....one side to screw into the strut and the other to screw on retainer nut. I suppose you could get a bolt that only has threads half way as you suggest and cut the bolt head off and screw that thru the strut hole and attach a nut on that side and then put the wheel/brake assembly on the smooth area and get some really big wheel collars to hold it all in place. Problem with that is finding a 6mm bolt long enough that will work. Home Depot's longest length 6mm bolt of any kind is 50mm and I need a minimum of 45mm to get everything on.
The problem is...both ends of the "bolt have to have threads....one side to screw into the strut and the other to screw on retainer nut. I suppose you could get a bolt that only has threads half way as you suggest and cut the bolt head off and screw that thru the strut hole and attach a nut on that side and then put the wheel/brake assembly on the smooth area and get some really big wheel collars to hold it all in place. Problem with that is finding a 6mm bolt long enough that will work. Home Depot's longest length 6mm bolt of any kind is 50mm and I need a minimum of 45mm to get everything on.
04-16-2013, 03:02 PM
#652
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RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
OK, so what you are after is really a stud. It kind of frustrates me that I have the means downstairs to make a pair for you in about half an hour, and would happily do so...but Iam probably about a week away from you by airmail. So presuming you don't have any machine tools...the process you mention of cutting the head off a suitable bolt would be fine, you then just need the right die to run a short thread on. A die and die holder is not all that expensive. Chamfer the edge of the stud before you try to start a die on it and make sure you start it square.
For obtaining screws and fasteners, you want to see if you can find a trade supplier that has a trade counter, they are usually happy to sell small quantities. You will get a better range than most hardware stores keep.
regards
John
For obtaining screws and fasteners, you want to see if you can find a trade supplier that has a trade counter, they are usually happy to sell small quantities. You will get a better range than most hardware stores keep.
regards
John
04-16-2013, 03:36 PM
#653
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
I can just go down to Ace Hardware. These ppl carry a snot load of different bolts in various sizes and lengths that most big box hardware stores dont since those usually cater more to contractors and not special needs that we here would look for.
I'll merely have to buy two bolts that match what I need that have a smooth section after the threads leading to the bolt head. Cut the bolt head off and slide the wheel assembly on and put a wheel collar in place and viola. Instead of using nuts to hold the wheel/brake assembly on, it would be a 1/4" wheel collar with set screw.
Of course, this is all dependant on finding a 6mm bolt long enough that the smooth section of the bolt shaft is long enough to accomodate the wheel width. Wont be able to get to an Ace hardware until Thursday. Will need to find a bolt longer then 50mm though to ensure there is adequate smooth section length.
I'll merely have to buy two bolts that match what I need that have a smooth section after the threads leading to the bolt head. Cut the bolt head off and slide the wheel assembly on and put a wheel collar in place and viola. Instead of using nuts to hold the wheel/brake assembly on, it would be a 1/4" wheel collar with set screw.
Of course, this is all dependant on finding a 6mm bolt long enough that the smooth section of the bolt shaft is long enough to accomodate the wheel width. Wont be able to get to an Ace hardware until Thursday. Will need to find a bolt longer then 50mm though to ensure there is adequate smooth section length.
04-16-2013, 04:25 PM
#654
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
Or maybe here? http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/119/3092/=mcp0oe
What if you sleeve brass tubing over your bolt to act as a bushing, that will protect the threads and prevent galling. Then you may still be able to utilize the existing threads for your wheel retaining nut.
I think the term "not sophisticated" more accurately is "temporary" and asking for trouble down road, when referring to the tape and heat shrink tubing idea.
Regardless, there is an easy solution. It can sometimes be tough to find it with local hardware though. The McMaster carr site certainly has most of what you would need to create a solution.
What if you sleeve brass tubing over your bolt to act as a bushing, that will protect the threads and prevent galling. Then you may still be able to utilize the existing threads for your wheel retaining nut.
I think the term "not sophisticated" more accurately is "temporary" and asking for trouble down road, when referring to the tape and heat shrink tubing idea.
Regardless, there is an easy solution. It can sometimes be tough to find it with local hardware though. The McMaster carr site certainly has most of what you would need to create a solution.
04-19-2013, 01:38 PM
#655
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
Ace had what I needed. 6mm small flange head bolt x 60mm length. Will cut the flange head off and install the threaded end through the strut and put a lock nut on that side(locktited)......the wheel will sit over the smooth section and a wheel collar will be placed on there to hold it all on...and yes...will flat spot the bolt for the wheel collar grub screw.
04-21-2013, 01:51 PM
#656
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
Here is a video showing the brakes working(out on the street in front of my house). There's a bit of conversation with neighbors about whats going on, so some may actually find that imformative. Anyway....the vid shows the effectiveness of the robart brakes and then near the end shows how the plane keeps on rolling when no brakes are applied(or out of air)
The vid is still uploading as of 4pm...so give it a bit of time
************************
EDIT..had to remove the link because the file got corrupt on upload.
The vid is still uploading as of 4pm...so give it a bit of time
************************
EDIT..had to remove the link because the file got corrupt on upload.
04-21-2013, 03:32 PM
#657
04-22-2013, 03:24 AM
#659
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
Hopefully...this coming sunday. Its supposed to be 72 degrees so as long as the winds aren't too bad, I'll take her out to the field. Because of the weight, I may end up having to use half flaps to take off with, but id prefer not to have to do that. I will try without, but if it doesn't look like she wants to fly, I will "hopefully" be able to abort especially having the brakes on now. Last thing I want to do is try to horse this off the ground.
04-22-2013, 04:43 AM
#660
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: kahloq
Hopefully...this coming sunday. Its supposed to be 72 degrees so as long as the winds aren't too bad, I'll take her out to the field. Because of the weight, I may end up having to use half flaps to take off with, but id prefer not to have to do that. I will try without, but if it doesn't look like she wants to fly, I will ''hopefully'' be able to abort especially having the brakes on now. Last thing I want to do is try to horse this off the ground.
Hopefully...this coming sunday. Its supposed to be 72 degrees so as long as the winds aren't too bad, I'll take her out to the field. Because of the weight, I may end up having to use half flaps to take off with, but id prefer not to have to do that. I will try without, but if it doesn't look like she wants to fly, I will ''hopefully'' be able to abort especially having the brakes on now. Last thing I want to do is try to horse this off the ground.
Bob
04-22-2013, 05:26 AM
#661
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RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: kahloq
Hopefully...this coming sunday. Its supposed to be 72 degrees so as long as the winds aren't too bad, I'll take her out to the field. Because of the weight, I may end up having to use half flaps to take off with, but id prefer not to have to do that. I will try without, but if it doesn't look like she wants to fly, I will ''hopefully'' be able to abort especially having the brakes on now. Last thing I want to do is try to horse this off the ground.
Hopefully...this coming sunday. Its supposed to be 72 degrees so as long as the winds aren't too bad, I'll take her out to the field. Because of the weight, I may end up having to use half flaps to take off with, but id prefer not to have to do that. I will try without, but if it doesn't look like she wants to fly, I will ''hopefully'' be able to abort especially having the brakes on now. Last thing I want to do is try to horse this off the ground.
Good luck on your maiden.
04-22-2013, 09:04 AM
#663
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: jimkron
Did you say 40 pounds on the video? Yikes, that is heavy.
Did you say 40 pounds on the video? Yikes, that is heavy.
He wanted me to fly it right there in the street LOL.
Before the brakes were installed, it weighed 37.2 pounds. With the brakes and different wheels, its 37.5 pounds. Still YIKES!!! Quite heavy, but hopefully should still be flyable. I just hope the 65cc rimfire up front and the power 60 in the tail have enough grunt to get it off the ground safely. Its got more wing area then the 95" b-25 and my friends has a wingloading of 62oz per square ft. and it flies just fine. He does use partial flaps on take off though. While I also have the b-25, mine is heavier then his due to me using 170 radials vs his 150 single saitos.
Yours flew very nicely at 35 pounds with two power 160's using I believe 20x10's, so.....Im confident that my 65cc and power 60 are putting out more thrust then two 160's. I may have to sacrifice speed in flight for thrust though.....what I mean here is.....I may have to take the 20x14 3 blade prop off the 65cc and put like a 24x12 on it to get a larger prop disc. Guess we'll see this weekend and hope I have a plane in one piece to bring back home[
]
04-22-2013, 09:06 AM
#664
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: sensei
I just wanted to tell you that I apologize for all the rude part of what I stated to you in the other thread, with that said; I do wish you the very best on your maiden this coming Sunday.
Bob
ORIGINAL: kahloq
Hopefully...this coming sunday. Its supposed to be 72 degrees so as long as the winds aren't too bad, I'll take her out to the field. Because of the weight, I may end up having to use half flaps to take off with, but id prefer not to have to do that. I will try without, but if it doesn't look like she wants to fly, I will ''hopefully'' be able to abort especially having the brakes on now. Last thing I want to do is try to horse this off the ground.
Hopefully...this coming sunday. Its supposed to be 72 degrees so as long as the winds aren't too bad, I'll take her out to the field. Because of the weight, I may end up having to use half flaps to take off with, but id prefer not to have to do that. I will try without, but if it doesn't look like she wants to fly, I will ''hopefully'' be able to abort especially having the brakes on now. Last thing I want to do is try to horse this off the ground.
Bob
04-22-2013, 05:41 PM
#665
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: kahloq
I was just speaking in general terms on the video to the guy in the orange shirt. None of my neighbors have any idea what weight means relative to an r/c plane's size, so saying 37.5 pounds would not have made any difference to them, so just said 40 as a round up figure.
He wanted me to fly it right there in the street LOL.
Before the brakes were installed, it weighed 37.2 pounds. With the brakes and different wheels, its 37.5 pounds. Still YIKES!!! Quite heavy, but hopefully should still be flyable. I just hope the 65cc rimfire up front and the power 60 in the tail have enough grunt to get it off the ground safely. Its got more wing area then the 95'' b-25 and my friends has a wingloading of 62oz per square ft. and it flies just fine. He does use partial flaps on take off though. While I also have the b-25, mine is heavier then his due to me using 170 radials vs his 150 single saitos.
Yours flew very nicely at 35 pounds with two power 160's using I believe 20x10's, so.....Im confident that my 65cc and power 60 are putting out more thrust then two 160's. I may have to sacrifice speed in flight for thrust though.....what I mean here is.....I may have to take the 20x14 3 blade prop off the 65cc and put like a 24x12 on it to get a larger prop disc. Guess we'll see this weekend and hope I have a plane in one piece to bring back home[]
ORIGINAL: jimkron
Did you say 40 pounds on the video? Yikes, that is heavy.
Did you say 40 pounds on the video? Yikes, that is heavy.
He wanted me to fly it right there in the street LOL.
Before the brakes were installed, it weighed 37.2 pounds. With the brakes and different wheels, its 37.5 pounds. Still YIKES!!! Quite heavy, but hopefully should still be flyable. I just hope the 65cc rimfire up front and the power 60 in the tail have enough grunt to get it off the ground safely. Its got more wing area then the 95'' b-25 and my friends has a wingloading of 62oz per square ft. and it flies just fine. He does use partial flaps on take off though. While I also have the b-25, mine is heavier then his due to me using 170 radials vs his 150 single saitos.
Yours flew very nicely at 35 pounds with two power 160's using I believe 20x10's, so.....Im confident that my 65cc and power 60 are putting out more thrust then two 160's. I may have to sacrifice speed in flight for thrust though.....what I mean here is.....I may have to take the 20x14 3 blade prop off the 65cc and put like a 24x12 on it to get a larger prop disc. Guess we'll see this weekend and hope I have a plane in one piece to bring back home[
]
04-22-2013, 08:33 PM
#666
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
But please do not "jump it into the air" as this would be a good way to help it meet it's demise. Leaving the ground early is asking for a stall/snap, and none of us want that. With the trike gear, it should be easy to track very straight down the runway until enough speed is acquired for a smooth ascent.
04-23-2013, 04:58 AM
#667
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
But please do not ''jump it into the air'' as this would be a good way to help it meet it's demise. Leaving the ground early is asking for a stall/snap, and none of us want that. With the trike gear, it should be easy to track very straight down the runway until enough speed is acquired for a smooth ascent.
But please do not ''jump it into the air'' as this would be a good way to help it meet it's demise. Leaving the ground early is asking for a stall/snap, and none of us want that. With the trike gear, it should be easy to track very straight down the runway until enough speed is acquired for a smooth ascent.
04-23-2013, 07:10 AM
#668
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
jimkron....you are using 20x10s right? You don't use any flaps at all on take off correct?
I also highly doubt mine will jump into the air(non literal interpretations included). Im more worried about running out of runway(800ft) and it still not want to lift off). That is why Im thinking a bigger diameter prop might end up being required, even if a lower pitch. Might be overthinking things, Im just a tad worried.
I also highly doubt mine will jump into the air(non literal interpretations included). Im more worried about running out of runway(800ft) and it still not want to lift off). That is why Im thinking a bigger diameter prop might end up being required, even if a lower pitch. Might be overthinking things, Im just a tad worried.
04-23-2013, 03:33 PM
#669
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
Disc area is way more effective thrust than pitch. Think of a larger lower pitch as a low gear in your car. If thrust is a concern with a heavy plane, Going with more diameter might be a good move. Then later you can up the pitch to see how fast it will go. After all, the top speed is all that matters right! lol
04-23-2013, 04:43 PM
#670
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
Well....I will try with the current prop(20x14) as they aren't cheap to acquire. Also....the pitch will get the plane moving faster on the ground to get more air moving over the wings, but a larger prop, lower pitch may do a better job getting the plane off the ground.
A 24x12 3 blade prop is $97.
If the plane doesn't want to break ground with the 20x14, then that's when the brakes can come into play to stop it before getting to the end of the runway....
or I could just get another 65cc rimfire and put that on the rear and put another 20x14 prop back there and add another 6s battery in the nose to the one powering the rear motor already there......oh wait....that's just adding more weight and then we'd be at 40 pounds for real LOL......just joking....no intention of ever doing that.
Its all speculation at this point since all we can do is guess what might happen. We'' find out this weekend.
A 24x12 3 blade prop is $97.
If the plane doesn't want to break ground with the 20x14, then that's when the brakes can come into play to stop it before getting to the end of the runway....
or I could just get another 65cc rimfire and put that on the rear and put another 20x14 prop back there and add another 6s battery in the nose to the one powering the rear motor already there......oh wait....that's just adding more weight and then we'd be at 40 pounds for real LOL......just joking....no intention of ever doing that.
Its all speculation at this point since all we can do is guess what might happen. We'' find out this weekend.
04-23-2013, 06:43 PM
#671
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: kahloq
jimkron....you are using 20x10s right? You don't use any flaps at all on take off correct?
I also highly doubt mine will jump into the air(non literal interpretations included). Im more worried about running out of runway(800ft) and it still not want to lift off). That is why Im thinking a bigger diameter prop might end up being required, even if a lower pitch. Might be overthinking things, Im just a tad worried.
jimkron....you are using 20x10s right? You don't use any flaps at all on take off correct?
I also highly doubt mine will jump into the air(non literal interpretations included). Im more worried about running out of runway(800ft) and it still not want to lift off). That is why Im thinking a bigger diameter prop might end up being required, even if a lower pitch. Might be overthinking things, Im just a tad worried.
I think you'll be fine. Just pick an abort take-off point on the runway. I'm guessing in 300 feet you'll be heading upwards. Just do a nice slow, scale liftoff, with a gentle first bank as she picks up airspeed. As you come up to a comfortable speed in the air remember to manage your throttle. You can't "balls to the wall" lipos for more than :15. Also, leave yourself plenty of time for several go arounds if your not happy with your approach. Everything at this point is guesswork about batteries. I would plan for a 5 minute flight. Takeoff, trim, fly, and start setting up for several approaches. Check batteries upon landing, high fives, and live to fly another day.
You'll do great.
jim
ps. Get that landing gear up right away. Don't be one of those guys that maidens with the gear down. Dumb idea. Two reasons: #1 If your going to crash you want the gear up. #2 the gear drag will slow the plane down. You need speed not drag.
04-24-2013, 05:33 PM
#674
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
I am of the opinion if you do not have enough power to fly with the gear down, you do not have enough power. There is a good likelihood that there may a trim change with the retraction of the gear. If this is the case, it would be better to do this at altitude.
When Evo flew his DO 335 at the WBOTR, he had mentioned to me it did odd things when he retracted the gear. I think that you will be just fine. It looked like it had plenty of power during the taxi tests at the field.
I am wondering though, why was it that you did not put a bigger motor in the back? It seems to me that power should not be an issue with this plane.
When Evo flew his DO 335 at the WBOTR, he had mentioned to me it did odd things when he retracted the gear. I think that you will be just fine. It looked like it had plenty of power during the taxi tests at the field.
I am wondering though, why was it that you did not put a bigger motor in the back? It seems to me that power should not be an issue with this plane.
04-24-2013, 06:06 PM
#675
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
kahlog,
A buddy of a friend of mine just maidened one of these that weighted in at 38lbs. They found wash IN! in the wingtips of about 2* on both sides (it may be worthwhile checking yours!). He used 60* of flaps and found the landing to be easy and predictable. He did say it had a tendency to get into a high-speed stall. He said if you flew it like a jet, it was a nice flying model.
A buddy of a friend of mine just maidened one of these that weighted in at 38lbs. They found wash IN! in the wingtips of about 2* on both sides (it may be worthwhile checking yours!). He used 60* of flaps and found the landing to be easy and predictable. He did say it had a tendency to get into a high-speed stall. He said if you flew it like a jet, it was a nice flying model.